SubscribeEdit: Put in “Lastly” section.
Edit 2: Realized I forgot to tag this trolling.
“Lelouch is alive” theories operate like Babushka dolls. You shake a Babushka around and it sounds like something is inside of it. On the outside, it looks like a painted wooden doll. It might be hard to see based on how detailed the painting is, but the outside Babushka has been cut at the center so you can open it. You open the doll up and find that that on the inside is yet another doll. You repeat this like 5+ more times and there will you find the core of the doll: A tiny little doll that you can’t open. Within the theories of Lelouch being alive, there is another theory assumption which you must buy into in order to accept the rest of the theory. And so, much like how I opened Babushka dolls before when I was little, I would like to “open up” the Lelouch is alive theories and show you that at the very core, there isn’t much there. Typically you wind up with people making assumptions due to lack of information then backing up their assumption by saying, “You can’t disprove me because Taniguchi hasn’t explicitly said against this.” (This introduction is actually me trying to write a real introduction instead of kicking things off by just directly stating that Lelouch = Alive theories are total bullshit.)
The theory about Lelouch being alive that I have in mind when I speak of Babushka dolls and being theory within a theory is the one about Charles passing his code. The theory goes something like this:
Doll #1: Lelouch is alive.
→ Doll #2: How? He has a Code which gives him immortality.
→ → Doll #3:Orly? When Nunnally touches Lelouch’s hand in R2 25, she sees his memories like how Lelouch and Suzaku saw C.C.’s memories during S1 and C.C. is a Code Person.
→ → → Doll #4: When did he get it? In episode 21, when Charles was being absorbed into the World of C, he rocketed over to Lelouch and gripped him around the neck and Lelouch took his Code from him.
→ → → Doll #4: When did he get it? In episode 21, when Charles was being absorbed into the World of C, he rocketed over to Lelouch and gripped him around the neck and passed his Code to Lelouch.
→ → → → Doll #5: Orly? A Geass user can only get a Code if they have the 2 eyed Geass which Lelouch got earlier in the episode. Charles and C.C. also had 2 eyed Geass.
→ → → → Doll #5: Orly? When you get a Code, a Code does not activate immediately, you have to die first before you are immortal and Geass-immune. This is why C.C. is covered in blood in the church. This is also why Charles was able to be commanded by Lelouch’s Geass after taking V.V.’s Code in R2 15.
→ → → → Doll #5: Lelouch wouldn’t let C.C. be lonely.
Random dolls laying around:
→ Lelouch is the cart driver. C.C. was talking out loud to herself and clearly addresses Lelouch in the end.
→ Orange wouldn’t let Lelouch die on purpose.
→ C.C., V.V., R.R., thus R2 = Ruruushu = Lelouch.
→ The R2 Continue Book was written in-universe.
→ Lelouch is laid out in a cross-shape when he falls. This means he’s like Jesus and he’ll come back.
→ You can’t just go by everything the creators say.
When Nunnally touches Lelouch’s hand in R2 25, she sees his memories like how Lelouch and Suzaku saw C.C.’s memories during S1 and C.C. is a Code Person.
When you take into account the contents of doll #5, this means that the process goes like this:
- 2 eye Geass.
- Get Code.
- Die.
- You are now a Code Person.
And yet, by saying that Nunnally seeing his memories was a result of him gaining a Code, it means the process went like this:
- Lelouch’s Geass leveled up into his other eye.
- Lelouch got a Code.
- Nunnally saw Lelouch’s memories.
- Lelouch died.
- Lelouch is now a Code Person.
In other words, it insists that Nunnally was able to read his memories before he died and got Code Powers. He was kind of talking after she saw this so we know he hadn’t died yet. I’m able to shoot down the entire Code theory using its own “evidence” by merely laying out the order of events.
Aside from not taking the order of events into account, Nunnally “seeing” his memories as a result of the World of C has the following problems:
- It doesn’t factor in that when Lelouch touched C.C., she was in the process of performing mind rape which is related to why he saw it.
- It doesn’t factor in that when Suzaku touched C.C., she was in the process of experiencing something which caused Lelouch’s Geass to go perma as well.
- Repeat versions of the above for V.V.’s trap on Kamine Island.
- It doesn’t factor in that the scenes that Nunnally “saw” looks completely different than the previous examples of when C.C. was touched.
- It denies and ignores the official explanation of what happened in that scene. (Btw, their explanation sounds completely retarded, but it’s no less retarded than say Guilford surviving FLEIA and plus if it’s the official explanation then what the hell can you do about it?)
Counter-Counter: Lelouch had Suzaku kill him off-screen so his Code was already activated!
Counter-Counter-Counter: No, I can’t disprove a random out-of-thin-air assumption. But even so, if that’s true, then what the fuck was the point of Suzaku and C.C.’s emotions during the part where Lelouch dies? At the very most, you can argue it from the perspective that everyone thought he was going to die but Charles unknowingly passed him his code.
In episode 21, when Charles was being absorbed into the World of C, he rocketed over to Lelouch and gripped him around the neck and Lelouch took his Code from him.
Why would Lelouch want to take an immortality Code? He was already not planning on being around in the future. S1 17, he pretty much says that. This also makes his exchange with Suzaku and C.C.’s monologue about death being his punishment in R2 25 look completely dumb. “Suzaku we’re going to talk about me dying all for nothing. C.C. you can cry about this even though you know how this system works.”
In episode 21, when Charles was being absorbed into the World of C, he rocketed over to Lelouch and gripped him around the neck and passed his Code to Lelouch.
This assumption is built on other assumptions instead of ignoring things you see on-screen like the previous.
This assumes that a Code Person can forcefully pass on their Code to someone, which is certainly arguable. However, if C.C. has been able to forcefully transfer it, why didn’t she force transfer it away a very, very long time ago? Until she met Lelouch, she thought she wanted to die, but that says nothing about the various people who she’s met over the past gazillion years. (Of course, you could argue that bit about C.C. with me, but it’s made apparent that Lelouch is special compared to the people who she’s met before.)
This also assumes that your Code has to be touching the person you pass it on to. With that in mind, lets review the scene in R2 15 when Charles and C.C. tango: C.C.’s Code is on her forehead. Without touching her forehead, magical beams of light which indicate “something is about to happen” get cued in. Charles is not touching her forehead at all. However, I now have a funny mental image of C.C. and the Sister having to headbutt people in order to pass their Code.
This also assumes that Charles would want to pass on his Code, which turns into another group of assumptions, this time about his character and what he thinks of Lelouch. The way it was argued to me was that Charles would have passed it on to Lelouch hoping that he would carry on his will! Alternatively, Schneizel would win and the Code would save Lelouch and then in turn Lelouch would become emo and go on with daddy’s plan. I wasn’t even sure how to respond to this guy except by laughing. The guy — his name is Majin Ultima btw in the event you ever run into this person on the internets — never explained why he thought that Charles would possibly maybe perhaps think like that even though me and various others in the thread repeatedly asked where/why/how he came up with that.
A Geass user can only get a Code if they have the 2 eyed Geass which Lelouch got earlier in the episode. Charles and C.C. also had 2 eyed Geass.
Unlike the other crap, this is a completely sense-making assumption that you can support adequately with the show and can’t really disprove. However, it being correct doesn’t mean anything for the issue of Lelouch being dead or alive.
When you get a Code, a Code does not activate immediately, you have to die first before you are immortal and Geass-immune. This is why C.C. is covered in blood in the church. This is also why Charles was able to be commanded by Lelouch’s Geass after taking V.V.’s Code in R2 15.
Charles is never shown with the red Geass rings in his eyes, nor is the sigil ever shown going into his eyes, nor does he ever see the psychedelic blue acid trip stuff, nor does his brain pattern stuff get shown. He shot himself to fuck with Lelouch’s head. This assumes that Charles would’ve been relying on Lelouch to order him to kill himself to make his Code to activate when Lelouch could’ve ordered him anything. In example, what if ordered him to tell him the truth about his mom’s death instead? Keep in mind that Lelouch actually asked him this first, then Charles egged him on, “If you want to know the answer to that question, then Geass me lolol”. Why would he egg him on to use his Geass to ask him that if he’s also relying on him to kill him to activate his Code?
Also, C.C. is covered in the Sister’s blood. The Code transfer happened, she killed herself to end her life, she was standing over C.C., her blood spills onto C.C., she loses a lot of blood and falls over backwards. (It’s possible that C.C. is additionally covered in blood from the carving she has on her stomach that you see in S1. It wasn’t on her when you see her full body naked in the scene before, and wounds would heal after she becomes immortal, so getting it with her Code is like the only explanation. However that is pretty irrelevant to Lelouch being dead/alive.)
Lelouch wouldn’t let C.C. be lonely.
This assumption is built on the assumption that C.C. and Lelouch are a couple, and Lelouch took daddy’s Code for her sake. And then, based on that assumption, it goes on to further assume that Lelouch would want to be with C.C. for all eternity. This also assumes that C.C. would actually be lonely without Lelouch. However, like the Nunnally shit, this also pretty much rejects what the creators have said about C.C. and her finding a reason to live on her own thanks to her time with Lelouch.
C.C., V.V., R.R., thus R2 = Ruruushu = Lelouch.
The romanization of Lelouch’s name in katakana would be Ruruushu and people argue that R2 would be Lelouch’s Code Person name. It uses R’s because Japanese has no L/R shit. Yet “Lelouch of the Rebellion” is spelled out quite nicely on the title screen. Saying that “R2″ would be Lelouch’s Code Person Name is stupid since it doesn’t follow how C.C. and V.V. are written. It would be R.R., not R2.
Orange wouldn’t let Lelouch die on purpose.
Assuming things about Orange’s character. Honestly, if Orange was so dedicated to Lelouch as to not let him go through with a plan to kill himself and improve the whole world, then why would he be hanging out with Anya on the orange farm at the end and not by Lelouch’s side like a loyal puppy?
You could also assume the opposite of that when speaking of Lelouch dying: Orange wishes to see his master’s plan carried out, even if it costs him is own life. Orange is loyal enough to Lelouch that he has understood the benefits of the plan, even if it comes at the cost of his master’s life.
Lelouch is the cart driver. C.C. was talking out loud to herself and clearly addresses Lelouch in the end.
Apparently, C.C. looking up at the sky = C.C. addressing the cart driver, or did I miss the frame where C.C.’s eyes somehow go to the back of her head? Or where the cart driver quits driving the cart and goes and stands over C.C.?
The R2 Continue Book was written in-universe.
R2 Continue book says that Lelouch died. Lelouch = Alive fags argue that this was written in-universe, so the people of the universe think he’s dead. However, if it was, then Suzaku would be listed as dead too, yet he isn’t.
Lelouch is laid out in a cross-shape when he falls. This means he’s like Jesus and he’ll come back.
I’m an Atheist.
You can’t just go by everything the creators say.
Lelouch = Alive people think that the only proof that Lelouch = Dead people have is Okouchi’s word where he outright says, “He’s dead.” And yet… the dialogue all indicates that Lelouch is going to die. C.C.’s little monologue about this being his punishment. Suzaku crying like a little bitch. All the dialogue indicates that Lelouch is going to sacrifice himself. Lelouch also got stabbed with a sword. If there was such an important story development as Lelouch getting a Code, they would’ve showed it before and/or C.C. would’ve brought it up at least once. Lelouch’s own ideals and dialogue indicates he’s going to die. If you showed this scene to someone who has never watched Geass before, they’d think he died.
From a stylistic and artistic perspective, his death scene has lots in common with Rolo’s, Shirley’s and Euphy’s. They say some famous last words, get an insert song (except Shirley), you see the black fuzzy shit around their eyes. That isn’t definitive by itself, but it does show consistency in how events are handled. This is also very different from the scenes with the people who came back.
Okouchi’s word is not the only substance, it’s more like the nail on Lelouch’s coffin. We don’t need other substance because we draw our conclusions from just watching the show. On the reverse, the Lelouch is Alive camp requires massive amounts of bullshit and assumptions to even have a foundation which just loops back to something I bitched about earlier: The thing about meta text and Code Geass.
inb4 Zorak going 
at me.
Contributors
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Lastly…
Even though Lelouch is dead and I love trolling fags who think he’s alive, I do acknowledge that when Sunrise wants to make more money off of Geass and needs him to be alive again, they will use some bullshit to bring him back to life and then its canon. However, until then, he’s dead and him being dead is canon. The reason why I posted this is because of ANN posting about Sunrise talking about more Geass, and how some people reacted to this by going, “ALL RIGHT! I KNEW IT! LELOUCH IS ALIVE!!!” even though the original magazine article ironically says “EVEN THOUGH LELOUCH IS DEAD” before the part about “More Geass possibly!”
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“This assumes that a Code Person can forcefully pass on their Code to someone, which is certainly arguable.”
Well, isn’t that what the nun did to C.C.? She forced her Code on C.C. after C.C. had progressed enough to be able to take it from her. My guess as to why C.C. didn’t ever force it on someone was because she didn’t want to be the same as the nun bitch, even if it meant living through a living hell. I mean, fuck, Lelouch even asks C.C. why she didn’t force eternal life on him when Curly is about to take C.C.’s Code.
“He shot himself to fuck with Lelouch’s head.”
That’s what I figured too. I never got the whole premise of having to die once to ‘activate’ the Code. Since we never see Curly with the Geass rings, I figured he was just trying to mindfuck Lelouch, and it works.
The R.R./R2 bullshit is cute, but it proves absolutely nothing. It only proves that if he were alive, that could be his name and oh look it matches durray. On its own, I don’t see how people can say it supports anything.
“I’m an Atheist.”
lol
“Lelouch’s own ideals and dialogue indicates he’s going to die.”
Honestly, I think this is the biggest nail in the coffin, more than anything else. He’s trying to die, he says that people who kill/shoot must be prepared to be killed/shot themselves, so from the beginning I think he was prepared and even KEIKAKU DOORIing to die.
So, if he did live, he’d have to have lived unintentionally, which is where all the lolhegotCurly’sCode stuff comes in. But it’s so unbelievably vague that there’s no way to prove anything. The biggest snag is, “why the fuck would Curly give his Code to Lelouch?” And if you say Lelouch just kinda took it for shits and giggles, you have to answer why Lelouch would take it if he’s planning to die anyway, so you end up going around in a circle.
Honestly, when I first watched episode 25, I was thinking something along the lines of this: C.C. gave Lelouch her Code, she goes back to that church and is crying because she’s confessing her sins and how she isn’t able to atone for them like Lelouch does. Although that’s problematic, because if he’s atoning for his sins by dying, but has a Code, then he’s not atoning for them at all.
Anyway, I don’t remember if we saw C.C.’s forehead after all that shit to see if she still has her Geass mark or not, but I can’t be arsed trying to think anymore about this. Lelouch is dead, it doesn’t work if he’s not dead, get over it.