Eclipse sucks

whitealbum_rage

White Album 01 was boring. The protagonist is an idiot who doesn’t understand the concept of recording something before airing it. The show has Hirano Aya. That’s the extent of my comments about the show itself. It was just so uninteresting that I would rather complain about the group who subbed it.

TL Note: I don’t expect anyone to care about the things I’m complaining about.

The editing is bad, as usual.
Their subs are so inflexible because the translator will translate it that way and the editor, Deidryt, is very minimalist in edits. It’s not uncommon to see lines their shows that don’t follow each other like a conversation. Deidryt is extremely picky about how people QC his editing so you’re not “allowed” to change anything drastically if you’re part of the process.

His single, “Try Sad”, was a big hit, recording 500,000 copies in sales.
His first album, “Dark Mist”, also sold 300,000 copies, enabling him to reach stardom immediately.

Using “also” where it is on the 2nd line implies that he sold exactly 300k copies of something else before Dark Mist. He didn’t.

From Ogata Productions, which he founded,
Ogata Eiji-san had his own sister, Rina-san, debut,
and is walking down a new path as an entrepreneur, composer, and producer.
And Yuki-chan here is the second talent produced by Ogata Pro., following Rina-san.

This reminds me of the Unlimited Comma Works from AniYoshi’s Soul Eater. I think this could be made vastly less retarded by switching the first and second lines around then removing the comma after debut. It would probably still sound retarded, but less than before.

Host: Lastly, tell us what your aspirations for the future are.
Yuki: Yes, but since I’ve just begun working with Ogata-san recently…
Host: Hey, give us something at least.

“Yes” doesn’t make sense as a follow up to the previous line. Why not use “Okay”?

Zephyr complained about their Code Geass R2 for a similar reason:

Zero: Governor Nunnally, you are just being used.
Nunnally: Since my eyes and legs are impaired, that I would garner sympathy from the public?

Like with the other lines from White Album, how does what Nunnally say here follow what Zero says?

When they’re being that nice…
I have a bad feeling.

Please flip this around.

You know “The Pied Piper of Hameln”, right?

I find it odd to use the German spelling of the city name when there’s an English equivalent that people know of. Someone will probably think this is a typo.

What? But there weren’t any customers today since we got here…

The phrase we’re looking for is “there hasn’t/haven’t been any”.

The karaoke has errors, as usual.
Yes, I am complaining about karaoke.

For some time, Eclipse’s karaoke maker has been Dark-Phoenix. There are various errors in his karaoke and I think that no karaoke would be better than errored karaoke. Frequently, his letter-by-letter karaoke will have bad positioning. For a really easy-to-understand example of this, see his Code Geass R2 ED2. The positioning errors are caused by how the positioning is done, syllable vs letters. Syllables get measured together (ie: mo together), letters get measured by letters (m and o separately). There are ways to avoid this, like just having the static line all done letter by letter, or sometimes using a different font. Frequently, his particle effect karaoke have particles that activate with blank spaces. This means there’s a pause in the singing timed to the space, and his effect script is reading the space as a sung character. Frequently, his fades are incorrect due to layering. Take into example the White Album opening. The fade on the last kanji on each line = non-existent. It looks extremely weird when the rest of the kanji fades away fine.

The encode is upscaled and looks horrible, as usual.
I really, really wish that Eclipse would label when the show is actually 720p versus when it’s MentarHD. The term “MentarHD” was coined during Shakugan no Shana S2 because of their encoder, Mentar’s, tendency to upscale stuff even if it looks horrible at the upscaled resolution. Anyone with working eyes who cares a little should also be able to tell that White Album looks bleh at 720p (plus some scenes are jerky, where mah vfr?), but Mentar is 39 years old. He’s like a grandpa among fansubbers, and he shows his eyesight is going bad with these upscaled encodes. If I were going to keep up with White Album and get Eclipse’s version, I would rather get the SD version except then it’d be hardsubbed and sf;lksdfl;234. Hardsubbed is a big deal due to the editing thing.

The show is bad, as usual.
Unlike this AnimeSuki user, when I see the [Eclipse] release tag, I think to myself, “This show is going to be a shitty adaptation.” 90%-ish of the time, it also means there is mindless smut and fanservice because that’s what their translators like. (Obviously the adaptation thing doesn’t apply to Code Geass R2, but I think you all know how I feel about that show anyway.) Relevant reading here.

69 Comments
January 7, 2009 in Subbing
Tagged , , , ,

69 Responses

  1. plus some scenes are jerky

    So that is something on their end? I noticed it when Rina-chan started singing and I heard Fagjii talking, but didn’t see anything come up. Looked like the video froze for a while or just lagged to shit. Hasn’t ever happened to me with any of Eclipse’s releases before, so I was kinda surprised.

    The show has Hirano Aya.

    Yeah… let’s not talk about that.

    • So that is something on their end? I noticed it when Rina-chan started singing and I heard Fagjii talking, but didn’t see anything come up. Looked like the video froze for a while or just lagged to shit. Hasn’t ever happened to me with any of Eclipse’s releases before, so I was kinda surprised.

      I’m not sure what exactly you’re talking about. If you mean the softsubbed karaoke part, it might be caused by your own playback. What I had in mind was stuff like the sidewalk background around 13:20.

    • I’m fairly sure jerky scenes are not their fault, but the raw’s. You might also notice SRSFKN errors in the OP audio, and the framerate at the pan-up at the end of the OP. This broadcast was complete shit, I guess it’s only fitting you find Eclipse’s sub of the shit to also be shit =\

      • jerky scenes would be caused by improper decimation. so it’s the encoder’s fault.

        unless they used a encoded raw(not a .ts), in which case it’s the encoders fault for using such a terrible raw/raw source.

  2. D= So much Hirano hate, though nostalgia always tells me she was decent in Suzumiya. Then again, I don’t follow her at all and probably can’t tell the difference between her and other roles if I ever saw her anywhere else!

  3. I can’t help twitching whenever I hear Aya’s voice in anime (her real voice is even worse.. :|). Where are the good drama shows these days (like Honey & Clover; I loved that one :o), this stuff is shit..

  4. i always thought the point of translating something from japanese to english was to make it readable in english, instead people prefer to translate the words to english but leave the positioning as it was

  5. PenisEngineMechanic

    ( ´_ゝ`)

  6. thanks for a QC of my karafx *yeah, no QC tells me where are the errors, and geass ED2 was auto3 (whoops, old tech)*. besides constructive critics may lead to a better result *remember, I look forward to your KnK particle karaoke*. thanks for feedback. it happens really few times…

  7. Finally someone noticed something….the number of good shows per season has been dropping quite steadily for like the last year…winter season has like…? one? (maria holic?)

    Not to be sexist, but it is a fangirl’s world for anime. In other words, the shows that are most popular to fangirls, like Vampire Knight, Clannad, White Album and idk…are most likely going to be subbed first and fast and most regardless of how good it actually is to the general population (clannad 2nd season first episode had a zero day release…). Reason why in the beginning of every season all good shows take days or might be even weeks to get the first episode subbed, regardless of how looked forward to it is, while retarded strictly meant for fangirls to go “Nyaaaaaa!” and “Awww…” over are subbed first and fast and most(white album being a prime example).

    • 風の谷の名無しさん

      > Finally someone noticed something….the number of good shows per season has been dropping quite steadily for like the last year

      No, you’re just getting jaded. It happens to EVERYONE, and everyone thinks it’s just THIS year that there has been less good shows.

      People have been going on like that for as long as I’ve been watching anime.

    • 風の谷の名無しさん

      Wait, did you just say Clannad is for fanGIRLS?

    • Opinions. Blah blah.

      How is White Album and Clannad even fangirl anime anyways?

      and no, this season’s actually doing okay, you’re looking at it in the wrong; it’s not that this year’s the worst, it’s just that you went through a year where there’s more decent shows than shit shows, that’s all. Seriously, look at it carefully, 07 and 08 weren’t that good from what I remember, either.

      • White Album: Idols? There is a reason why almost every magic girl show before sailor moon involved the girl using the powers to become an idol of some sort or going into j-pop industry. Girls like idols, it appeals to them. Skip Beat? Yeah, I guess you can argue the other side…but I don’t have the motivation to argue with you, sorry.

        Clannad: Well, if you don’t agree with me, replace it with something else. Come up with your own example and fill it in place of mines as you read if you don’t like my examples. Geez…

        I remember I said last year…this year barely started…I am not saying this year is the worst or it’s just this year…if you can somehow prove I said that in that post…then I am sorry okay?

        When I say “dropping quite steadily for like the last year”, I meant dropping steadily from last year and maybe before. And that this season is not really getting any better. So yes I agree with your statement:

        “Seriously, look at it carefully, 07 and 08 weren’t that good from what I remember, either.”

        That was my point…which I think you missed or didn’t understand. Ask for clarification next time if you are not sure of my position. Enjoy winter season. =)

        • White Album is from an eroge, dude. I don’t know how that is supposed to appeal to girls, to be honest, it didn’t have that good of a character design, either, why don’t you look it up before randomly relating things together? For that matter, using Skip Beat is a pretty bad example because for a shoujo series it really had more ACTING drama than girl’s stuff anyways, so I don’t get how that should be a telling sign that girls like that stuff.

          Clannad’s just a ridiculous example for something that will greatly appeal to girls, I don’t think you get how they work, that’s all; or maybe you just happen to know a lot of girls from which you can infer this. And no, I’m filling in for your mistakes, f00l.

          Well, I was just saying 07 and 08 as an example, if you want, I can tell you that every one of the last 6-7 years there’s been shitty seasons scattered through out. If you want I can look it up, but then again, you don’t want to argue, so I’ll try to stop here.

  8. oh guys srsly again. what’s with all this your hirano hate. quit it for once.

  9. Eclipse also had a TL-note in Geass R2 Episode 1x, that “Grausam” menas “cruel” in English. Deutschfag in da house?

  10. I don’t even want to watch this now. Do I drop it before even watching it y/n.

  11. PenisEngineMechanic :never getting unbanned from #/a/ now ( ¯3¯)

    Hayate no Gotoku!

    * Funny, but got really repetitive after a while.
    * Also lacked a lot of the manga’s drama.

    I’m not the only one, okay.
    The only good thing about Hayate was KugiRie, that’s all.

  12. Eclipse > gg

  13. miasmacloud :AniDB ratings! Whatever shall I do. ;_;

    Genuflect.

  14. I agree that the errors are freaky and noticeable but I liked the anime at least. For a first episode it was mildly good, and I expect that the show will fare better later on. Then again I’m a big fan of romance. Thanks for this post though! I may try looking at some other fansub versions now =D

  15. God knows how anyone would ever realize those things while watching some anime.

    Unless well… you watch anime sober–which is a problem in and of itself.

  16. Yay, a honest-to-good review from Best Friends Forevah goddess Koda plus echo chamber ;) … what could be more fun?

    Actually, what a smackdown. Koda, you’re bad. You wounded my inner child. I think we’re gonna disband Eclipse right away and become a crew of lumberjacks instead. How could I possibly stay to screw up in the anime business for so long? We simply lacked the guidance, that’s why. And now it’s too late… boohooooo *snief*

    Well, I’m no goddess, so unlike Koda I’ll have to restrict my comments to things I actually happen to know something about. Which is encoding. Let’s duly worship her wisdom in the stench of my own misguided ignorance…

    > The encode is upscaled and looks horrible, as usual.

    While “horrible” is fairly subjective, “upscale” is wrong. But we’ll get to that later.

    > I really, really wish that Eclipse would label when the show is actually
    > 720p versus when it’s MentarHD. The term “MentarHD” was coined during
    > Shakugan no Shana S2 because of their encoder, Mentar’s, tendency to
    > upscale stuff even if it looks horrible at the upscaled resolution.

    Aaah, the wisdom of the true experts. Look, Koda, in my world there is no such thing as a “resolution” for anime. It’s not like anime is drawn for digital video resolutions. There is no “hey, let’s make this anime HD” or “animate this show as SD”. The only thing which changes is the size of the sheet on which the cels are drawn. In other words, what matters are 1) the line thickness and 2) the background details.

    Then, the animation gets digitized and eventually aired. Modern caps are based on the stations’ MPEG-2 transport stream which airs in 1440×1080. Back then during Shana, the critics claimed that there was no such thing. But wonders never cease, so now we know, there is. In our case for White Album 01, the source was no transport stream (since we didn’t have it), but just a 1280×720 raw based on the tvk transport stream. Maybe in your heavens, 1280×720 source raws kept to 1280×720 resolution equal an “upscale”, but somehow in my reality-based one, it doesn’t. Also, any remotely competent encoder would know that downscaling does not _improve_ a frame. It’s common sense: The advantage is that due to lower resolution, you can rightfully argue that you save some bitrate – true. Unfortunately, the tradeoff is that WITH proper linemending, the 1280×720 picture will look better than a SD frame which is eventually upscaled during playback (since most people will watch anime at fullscreen) WITHOUT it. With shows like WA, which have a relatively high detail level and relatively thin lines, releasing at SD often results in 1-pixel-lines causing aliasing and staircase effects during playback. 1280×720 resolution gives antialiasing the required pixels to work with, making the result look cleaner. And at 300meg release size, bitrate savings are really no concern.

    This is why – sorry to say so – your “it’s SD because I say it is” approach generally leads to competent SD encodes which then often enough look worse than what your less skilled, but also less dogmatic opposition keeping it 1280×720 releases. Maybe you could just show poor bleary-eyed me how it’s properly done? Take the transport stream of episode 2 (tvk) and make a SD encode after 1 week which looks better than the one I’m putting out 28 hours after transport stream availability for us? Same filesize? Strangely, in the past, when I offered the same challenge during Shana, I initially heard lots of growls of defiance from our theoreticians, but then not a single one came back with an SD encode. And I always SO wanted to learn. Too bad. Hmmmmm…

    > Anyone with working eyes who cares a little should also be able to tell that
    > White Album looks bleh at 720p (plus some scenes are jerky, where mah vfr?),

    I wouldn’t say bleh, it was still a solid enough picture that I had no qualms releasing it even though it was raw-based. It’s true that the release was not VFR, since the source was CFR 29.970 fps. But okay, I accept this part of the criticism as valid. By now we have our sources set up, and so starting with episode 2 (uploading for release as we speak), you’ll get your VFR, and also (in my opinion) some noticeable quality improvement in the frames aswell.

    > [...] but Mentar is 39 years old. He’s like a grandpa among fansubbers, and
    > he shows his eyesight is going bad with these upscaled encodes. If I were
    > going to keep up with White Album and get Eclipse’s version, I would rather
    > get the SD version except then it’d be hardsubbed and sf;lksdfl;234. Hardsubbed
    > is a big deal due to the editing thing.

    It’s mystifying to me how someone could believe that – sufficient bitrate stipulated – downscaling a source could result in better frames, but then again I’m lacking your divine insight ;) … so please help me a bit: Are you telling me that White Album has the same animation detail level as for example SoraKake? Or MariaHolic? And why are you keeping Tales of the Abyss 1280×720, when it has a detail level comparable to WA?

    Anyway, you may be happier with the transport stream-based episode 02, but then again, the group sucks, the anime sucks, the translation sucks, the editing sucks, the karaoke sucks, the timing sucks… no wait, the timing didn’t suck. Then again, Fluffy is in gg too. Guess that BFF gotta mean something after all. Hmmm :)

    PS: The funny thing is that after episode 02, I consider White Album to be one of the most promising serious romance drama shows I’ve encountered lately. I’d expect it to end up in line with KimiNozo/True Tears/School Days.

    • Grandpa, you really had me there for a moment. I thought you were being serious until I got to the end of your wall of text. School Days, a serious romance drama? Damn you’re a good troll, I raged hard.

    • How about you downscale to 480p instead of 400p to get some pixels for your lines ┐(゚∀゚)┌

      • Oi derp, how ya doing? :)

        Just get the source an play around with it some, too. 480p would hurt a little bit less, but still remain insufficient. If you want, I can put up the TS for you to tinker around, and then I’ll list you some sequences which I think you can’t really fix with 480p. If you really find a solution, then by all means show me, but I honestly don’t think that you can. I wasted _alot_ of time experimenting with this in the last 1-2 years.

    • I never watched any of the 3, but then again I’ve never watched an anime based romance. Seems like people keep laughing at your choices. Mind defending what you said? I tried wiki, but all I get are high school romances that have character art that I can’t even adore. What makes them so great? The KimiNozo summary seems to be the most deep in potential, while School Days just sounds like a masochist roller coaster. Both which I think can turn out to be entertaining, but is that all?

      Seriously, T_T I am so friggin clueless on this shit.

  17. heh, indeed.

    miasmacloud :Grandpa, you really had me there for a moment. I thought you were being serious until I got to the end of your wall of text. School Days, a serious romance drama? Damn you’re a good troll, I raged hard.

  18. lol wtf
    Wats with all the rage @ eclipse >< I watched white album and its good

    Lolled at this line though hahahha:

    someone :heh, indeed.

    miasmacloud :Grandpa, you really had me there for a moment. I thought you were being serious until I got to the end of your wall of text. School Days, a serious romance drama? Damn you’re a good troll, I raged hard.

  19. btw which fansub groups is the guy who posted this rant in?

  20. I didn’t notice those issues with Eclipse’s White Album karaoke. But maybe that’s because the styling was so concerned with “fitting” the backgrounds that I was straining to read outlines instead of letters. Whatever happened to good ol’ white with black outline+shadow? Heck, even DVD-yellow at least would’ve been readable.

    Decided to sidestep the TrueHD/Upscaled/MentarHD debate by getting the SD release. I do wish Eclipse’s editing were a little more liberal/natural, but that’s just my preference and I know they won’t change their stated philosophy. For whatever flaws they have, I generally find them better than the alternatives for a given series.

  21. well i couldnt careless about kodas comment regard the translation and editing of eclipse’s wa being sux since thats *his expertist* at and he’s all right about it, but idk about his encoding comments on eclipse since i know thats the part where mentar expertist is. koda shouldnt be talking about that part cos mentar will own him in that department no matter how reasoning koda will do. this is can be seen on mentar comment.

    daemon404 from menclave has the views as koda that this anime only deserves a SD rls, but i know daemon404 didnt rls his HD cos he cant achieve the same level of encode as mentar’s hd rls. menclave can rls a hd of this series seriously but they dont want to cos they cant fix those problem that mentar has come across to encoding this shitty upscale… go look on their macross frontier HD rls.. the first couple episode that were gg rls as SD cos it was SD at first and then got change afterwards into HD on later eps.

  22. Encode /a/non of Texas

    Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. This is his field of expertise too. Koda encoded .hack/ROOTS and it looked fucking pro. Are you an encoder or are you just guessing Mentar is correct because he wrote a brick wall?

    P.S.: White Album in “HD” looks like ass whether it’s Eclipse’s “HD” release or Zero Raws “HD” raw because the animation blows. You can tell by the pixels.

  23. Anon encoder from where texas..dont be so fanboy. Koda has a reason why he dont wanna to be as encoder in gg right now because his knowledge on encoding degraded… and he rather want to be a tl or an editor. go burn your comp cos you encoded shit like chihiro’s encoder.

  24. what the hell is going on here i don’t even …

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